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A Suburb in Stockport

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TwistedBanana posted..

[QUOTE=OliverJohnstone]Oh come on Twisted - look at the factors at play here. The UK economy has been declared as the least exposed to another recession out of the developed economies. The vast majority of economic commentators believe that it is external issues in other economies that are the biggest risk to the UK economy - not least the Eurozone economies like France that has had a Socialist President for a good few years now.

Surely we cannot listen to expert opinion and in some cases, unarguable facts and judge that Osbourne's economic policies have failed in any way. I am not saying it is perfect but then find me an economic policy that is.

The issues in the NHS were inevitable - we kept feeding ourselves the delusion over the last 70 years that we could continue to pay for universal healthcare as it became more complex and the population became much much older. I am not suggesting we do away with the universal free healthcare aspect but bottom line, unless we have a serious grown up debate about raising serious revenue from somewhere then the whole project will be in dire straits.

I don't think the Conservative Government is in a position to have that debate at the moment - it has been a mammoth task to secure the investment required just to fund the plan until the next decade. Equally I think that the rest of our political class are similarly unprepared. There is a fanatical, semi religious commitment to the NHS which can be positive but often also blinds people to the reality of "where does the extra revenue continue to come from?"


Olly, You accept the argument that the biggest threat to the UK economy is from outside sources (Despite the fact we are stagnant as a country due to the ridiculous austerity measures)would you then accept that the issues with the economy in the latter years of the Labour government were also caused by external factors? after all it wasn't Gordon Brown who took Greece down, who put America into recession, who screwed up the Spanish economy - surely it is the Tories who want it both ways as you accuse me of?

Lets not forget that the Labour government spent Billions to bail RBS out, it had no choice, RBS has gradually paid back the money to start to take it out of public hands (thus providing a cash boost to the current purse string holders)

let me remind you that Osborne backed every piece of Labour's spending, up until 2008 when he suddenly slunk back into the shadows

GDP per head is still lower than it was before the Lehman crash
His promises to get rid of the deficit in one parliament have proven to be just tosh
You mention France - the nation whos productivity is 30% higher than ours

As for the health service - you use words like "fanatical" and "semi-religious" - these are the words of the Right, the sort of words used for 60 years by the Right to dismiss the supporters of something they have always despised.

Of course the health service can work, it is ridiculous to claim otherwise. Lets have a look at the biggest drains on the Health service, things like contracts awarded to companies that aren't offering the best packages but whos faces fit based on connections higher up. Lets look at how much it costs to train a nurse - roughly £80,000 per year for three years, only to see that newly qualified nurse go over to other private sector that still has minimal investment in training, thus loses the NHS a resource that has cost them just short of £250,000.00. Lets look at the many other areas that the Private Health Service is a parasite on the National Health Service. I have no objection with a Private Service that offers a bit above the norm but it shouldn't be parasitical to the NHS.

Lets look at the ridiculous amount of middle management still festering in well paid jobs, jobs that don't really exist while senior consultants and doctors wishes and advice is ignored for fear of it being too sensible and maybe making the Health service more efficient and then scuppering the plan to get rid of it.

Lets look at the billions spent each-time a new party or a new health minister comes in and restructures. moves this department to there and that department to here - I suppose if it keeps them busy pushing pens then alls good.
It wasted money that has cost the Health Service, not the fact it has outgrown its pants.