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Sainsburys Petrol Station

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Jenny
Villager

Jenny
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
25th October 2015 at 9:02PM
PFS1 Wrote:

cllrkevinhogg Wrote:

Sense from some one at last


I stand by my earlier post. If the Petrol Station and forecourt are built as proposed, the remaining width between the station and the opposite building will not be wide enough to accommodate the required highway. Should have gone to Specsavers.


The required highway is already built for the short stretch past where the petrol station is going to be. In the submitted plans this road is not being removed.

I presume you've actually looked at the plans before commenting, right? If so, should have gone to Specsavers.

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PFS1
Villager

PFS1
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
25th October 2015 at 10:36PM
And if you had been to look at the site and also looked carefully at the plans you would have discovered that the existing highway at that point is only wide enough for single lane traffic. It is also owned by Sainsbury's and was created purely for Sainsbury's own use for access to their delivery yard.
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Jenny
Villager

Jenny
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
25th October 2015 at 10:50PM
PFS1 Wrote:

And if you had been to look at the site and also looked carefully at the plans you would have discovered that the existing highway at that point is only wide enough for single lane traffic. It is also owned by Sainsbury's and was created purely for Sainsbury's own use for access to their delivery yard.


The Stepping Hill link is only a single lane in each direction, not a dual carriageway. Can you provide proof that it's a private highway owned by Sainsburys please.
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PFS1
Villager

PFS1
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
25th October 2015 at 11:08PM
I have an A4 size photocopy of part of a larger plan showing the area of Mill Street which has been adopted by Stockport council Highways Department. This indicates that the adopted area finishes immediately past the pedestrian crossings. The Council only adopt roads which are part of the public highway. Unfortunately, this small extract from a larger drawing does not indicate the drawing number nor can I email an image of the drawing to you. I suggest you make enquiries at the Highway Department
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Jenny
Villager

Jenny
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
25th October 2015 at 11:58PM, Edit: 26th October 2015 at 12:01AM by Jenny
The bypass route, including the Stepping Hill link was protected by the council in 2003, after the Highways Agency ceased it's protection. I have a PDF map here showing the extents of that protection, the parcel of land where the petrol station is proposed is not protected as it's not on the line of the link road.

When Sainsbury's was constructed, a short section of the Stepping Hill link was built with it, what is today known as Mill Street, pending further extension to connect with the bypass at a later date. The route was proposed to go from where the mini roundabout currently is at the end of Mill Street (the mini roundabout was only intended to be temporary until full construction of the link), to meet the bypass at a point roughly where it intersects Bean Leach Road (though no junction with Bean Leach Road itself). Have you never pondered on why Mill Street is over-enginered for it's current purpose?

All of the information on the Stepping Hill link is out there, you only need to research it and you'll discover the following facts:
> The petrol station is not on the line of the Stepping Hill link
> Mill lane is the initial stub of the Stepping Hill link
> The route of the Stepping Hill link and the bypass was protected by the council in 2003. (I can find no evidence to suggest that this has changed)

Just a few quotes from a 2014 planning document relating to the petrol station
Mill Street is a safeguarded route under policy CS10 of the Council’s Core Strategy DPD, as it would
form the southern end of the proposed Stepping Hill Link Road. This proposed highway infrastructure
forms part of a strategy (SEMMMS) to remove through traffic from several local and district centres
including Heald Green, Bramhall and Hazel Grove. The first stage of this strategy, linking together the
A6 to the east of the site with Manchester Airport and the M56 already has funding.


In fact, go to Google, search for "sainsburys stepping hill link road", open the PDF which is the first result and go to page 48 for a map of the link road, as proposed at the time of Sainsbury's construction. And before you say "but the road is 5 lanes wide in that plan" - go and look in person, the road is *already* that wide, it's just used for parking.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask me, but please don't try to scare people with lies such as "If the Petrol Station and forecourt are built as proposed, the remaining width between the station and the opposite building will not be wide enough to accommodate the required highway".

If you want to stop the petrol station from being built, stick to the facts, and only the facts.
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Jenny
Villager

Jenny
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
26th October 2015 at 12:19AM
Though it's worth noting that I've been unable to find any firm plans for the pre-1998 version of the bypass, which was going to be the A6(M) motorway with an entirely different version of the Stepping Hill link. This original plan was shelved in 1998, though I suspect the Stepping Hill link would have gone right through where Sainsburys now stands, creating a traditional crossroads with New Moor Lane rather than the setup we have today. But as I said, that's only a suspicion. Not that it matters because that scheme was shelved a long time ago!

There was even for a time a plan to bypass Hazel Grove to the west with a motorway, which would have met the M60 (then it was the M63) at the Pyramid junction, but that's going back many many many years! That plan didn't even have a Stepping Hill link.

(Just a bit of historical context there for people)
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PFS1
Villager

PFS1
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
27th October 2015 at 4:23PM
Jenny – Lets start with a few more facts.
None of the routes for either the Bypass or the Link are finalised and therefore their interaction with anything else is not finalised.
The 'Stubb' of the Link at the end of Mill Street is not even finalised as it will have to be widened to accommodate an extra lane whenever the Link is completed.
The 'Safeguard to which you refer is simply a planning mechanism to prevent development of an area of land because the intention of the Council is to use that area for a specific purpose at some point of time in the future. It does not have a precise, ie. Measured, location within the environment as this would call for approved plans for the surrounding area. The map to which you refer is a representation of what might occur, not a fact.
You state that Mill Street is over engineered for its current purpose. You are possibly correct, but what is your point?
You quote from 'a planning document', CS10, from the Council's Core Strategy DPD. Again what is your point?
It is a pity that you didn't read the remainder of the Core Strategy Document. There are a number of other CS Policies which the applicant's have simply ignored, such as safety for pedestrians(No1 on the hierarchy of planning considerations) and pollution. In their eagerness to be seen to be following guide lines,

"Development that is sustainable should go ahead, without delay – a presumption
in favour of sustainable development that is the basis for every plan, and every
decision."

Planning Department omitted to read the next sentence.

This framework sets out clearly what could make a proposed plan or
development unsustainable.

Had they done so, this application would never have been put to the committee.

The quotations are from the National Planning Policy Framework.

To sum up.
This application is a disaster, not because of what it is but because of where it is.
If the appeal is granted, we cannot prevent any subsequent increase in congestion but common sense and cooperation can mitigate the negative effects.
Lack of foresight got us into this mess, isn't it time we started to learn from past mistakes?

Incidentally, Sainsbury's have two other areas of land at the rear of the store. What kind of development do you think they will want next?
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Jenny
Villager

Jenny
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
27th October 2015 at 4:54PM
PFS1 Wrote:

None of the routes for either the Bypass or the Link are finalised and therefore their interaction with anything else is not finalised.


Ultimately no plans are finalised until shovels hit the ground, and even then are liable to change. But this is all that we have to work with - based on all available information then the Sainsburys petrol station will not be in the way of the Stepping Hill Link.

It's worth pointing out that the western end of the current A555 was "future-proofed" for extension towards the airport. 20 years later this future-proofing is now being used. It's common for schemes to incorperate future-proofing for construction that is likely to happen at a later date, take a look at the northern end of the bypass at the M60 junction, for example - that's future-proofing (just on a much larger scale to what has happened at Mill Street)

PFS1 Wrote:

The 'Stubb' of the Link at the end of Mill Street is not even finalised as it will have to be widened to accommodate an extra lane whenever the Link is completed.


Like I said previously, the majority of the tarmac is already down to accommodate the last known plan (I'll refer to it as that to stop you from being pedantic), it's just used for parking. Look at the 'last known plan' and look at an aerial photo of the road.

PFS1 Wrote:

The 'Safeguard to which you refer is simply a planning mechanism to prevent development of an area of land because the intention of the Council is to use that area for a specific purpose at some point of time in the future. It does not have a precise, ie. Measured, location within the environment as this would call for approved plans for the surrounding area. The map to which you refer is a representation of what might occur, not a fact.


The map that I have seen is very specific about the land that is protected as part of this, and it does *not* include the site of the Petrol Station. I am *not* referring to the plans for the Stepping Hill Link here. As we already know, the planning application already states that the Petrol Station does not interferer with the link road.

There is nearly no chance of the Stepping Hill link being constructed on a larger scale than these original plans suggest - the traffic levels just won't justify it. If it ever gets planned as a dual carriageway, then I shall go out, buy a hat and eat it.

PFS1 Wrote:

You state that Mill Street is over engineered for its current purpose. You are possibly correct, but what is your point?


Merely pointing it out as you don't seem to believe that Mill Street is the only constructed part of the Stepping Hill Link

To be honest, you're not worth arguing with, you dislike the facts because they don't suit you. There is a 90% chance of this petrol station being built, and it will now cost the area money because of the incompetence of those in power.

TLDR: The proposed Sainsbury's petrol station does not impede on the last known line of the Stepping Hill Link, it does not prohibit it's future construction, despite what a single "NIMBY" would like to have you believe.
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cllrkevinhogg
Hazel Grove Councillor

cllrkevinhogg
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
27th October 2015 at 6:15PM
I hope the libb dems are not included in tose in power, we were out oted on the night
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
27th October 2015 at 7:28PM, Edit: 28th October 2015 at 7:24AM by Serenity
cllrkevinhogg Wrote:

I hope the libb dems are not included in tose in power, we were out oted on the night


I'm a little confused here Kevin how can you say that on the night you were out voted when you clearly said on here that you abstained from voting until you knew more - not exactly the same as being out voted I would have thought.

And I'm proud to be a "NIMBY" Jenny because there are better places to put a petrol station than in an already overly congested part of the Grove. It might be great for those out of town shoppers(from Bramhall and Marple who by the way are the real "NIMBY"s)but not for the environment of the Grove.

I'm so glad that some of us still seem to want to try to preserve what's little bit of our green space is left in the Grove, otherwise all the big companies would just want to keep expanding. We have to try to preserve some green space to balance out the pollution generated from so many stores and a busy main road in what is otherwise quite a small area. Doesn't it make sense.

It's ironic that an iron tree is something else that Sainsbury's planners thought would really benefit the Grove, that too probably looked great on paper (like the petrol station) but in reality it just doesn't give anything back, it's not nice to look at - it doesn't attract wildlife - but it's cheap to maintain - sod that probably everyone in the Grove hates it. Is that what you all want. Doesn't anyone give a stuff for the environment impact. Whichever way you look at it all adds up to the same thing - more cars - more pollution - if you can't see that then you must be all blind.

I don't know all about rules and regulations but I'm proud that Oliver and Julian (be it wrong or right) have the backbone to try and stand up for what they feel is in the best interests of the residents of the Grove - those that will be badly effected by this decision - not those resident who no doubt probably live just far away enough away not to be really bothered by it, but like the idea of cheaper petrol, and as such are quite happy to turn a blind eye so that they can save a few pence at someone else's expense...

So I'm happy and proud to be a "NIMBY" for not wanting to add more pollution and congestion to the back yard of the Grove - and I can rest assured in the knowledge that I'm in good company with the likes of Andrew Stunnell LD (your party Kevin), a party that was in power back when the original plans for Sainsbury's were passed - plans said you opposed. Plans that have since been recognised as huge mistakes by Andrew. But unlike you Kevin he has at least held his hands and admitted that they were mistakes and mistakes that he didn't want to happen again in Marple. So don't try to push the blame onto someone else Kevin or hide behind regulations hold your hands up and be counted.
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