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The News of the World and hacked e-mails.

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JohnEllis
Citizen

JohnEllis
Re: The News of the World and hacked e-mails.
7th July 2011 at 12:35PM, Edit: 7th July 2011 at 12:47PM by JohnEllis
1. Climate, I think you're being generous to those at the top. The editor of a paper is the one who's legally liable for what the paper does and prints. Whatever else the Murdoch empire is, it's a professional and a canny operation. I simply don't believe that Rebekah Brooks or Andy Coulson, when they were editing the NotW didn't know what their underlings were up to. If they didn't, they were incompetent, and I don't think they would have got, or kept, their jobs if they had been.

2. Sundave, it is illegal, as you say, to hack phones - though I believe the legislation's fairly recent. Unfortunately, it's becoming pretty clear that elements in the Metropolitan Police - and who knows what other police forces? - have been in the pockets of the Murdoch press, and received illegal payments from them for leaking confidential information.

Itsme, quite rightly, raises this point, and I think it does indeed cast doubt on the extent to which we can trust the independence and professionalism of elements in the police force. As to the prime minister's involvement, I don't know that Cameron's been as blatantly up the backside of the Murdoch empire as Blair was, but his employment of Andy Coulson as his PR bloke was a pretty appalling failure of judgement. I think his future credibility will very much hang on how he reacts, and how he heads up the government's on-going role in all this. For me, the test will be if the government still allows Murdoch's lot to take full control of BSkyB; if it does, it will have entirely lost my confidence.

3. I suspect Guest is right: there probably are other papers who've been at the same game. As to how the private investigator got Milly Dowler's mobile phone details, time will tell; but the likelihood on evidence so far must be that he bought the details of this, and other phone numbers, from a shifty and greedy police officer.

And finally: the BBC's just announced that Newscorp has said that the News of the World will publish for the last time this coming Sunday, and that the last edition's profits will be given to charity.

More than I expected, and good as far as it goes, but for me it doesn't go far enough. Rebekah Brooks continues to head up the Murdoch media in Britain, and the rest of the Murdoch empire presumably continues unchanged. Their whole operation, in my view, is vile, manipulative and evidently corrupt. The next target for popular wrath should be the Sun, which is no less a foul rag than the NotW.

And of course there's always the lurking possibility that, the Sunday after next, The Sun on Sunday might be launched, which would be the NotW in everything but name - and doubtless continue in just the same style.

This publishing empire simply stinks, from top to bottom. I've no trust at all in its crocodile tears, its promises or its intentions.

P.S. The BBC's just said that "a person or persons unknown" copyrighted the title The Sun on Sunday two days ago. Guess who?! So business as usual.

Which means that all that Murdoch's lot have said and done in the last hour is no more than a smokescreen, and mere bilge. This organization really does need stopping, whatever it takes ...
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Craig Mansley
Drifter
Re: The News of the World and hacked e-mails.
7th July 2011 at 12:43PM
It has been confirmed. Sunday 10th July is the last edition of the News of the World.
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Guest
Drifter
Re: The News of the World and hacked e-mails.
7th July 2011 at 2:21PM
Climate, you said "People cry about the MD's taking big money but they take a huge responsibility and they rarely have a clue of what is going on at a lower level."

Well they should have. As an MD, you are paid to have a clue what is going on, at least in fundamental areas of the business such as ethics. MD’s, CEO’s et al take the money, and they must shoulder the responsibility.

You also said, “Look at the whole 'Baby P' thing. The Woman in charge who was, IMO wrongly sacked, won her case. Enough said.”

More hot air from you Climate. Sharon Shoesmith won her case against Haringey Council because the correct due process was not followed concerning her employment contract, not because she was shown to be competent in her previous role and/or had done nothing wrong.
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JohnEllis
Citizen

JohnEllis
Re: The News of the World and hacked e-mails.
7th July 2011 at 3:01PM
Channel 4 News has just reported a rumour that Andy Coulson may be arrested tomorrow.

Now of course rumours are just rumours, but it seems a reasonable guess that a reputable, quality TV news channel wouldn't have repeated the rumour if they didn't have a reasonable degree of assurance that there was something in it.

If that does happen, and so soon after Coulson's time as David Cameron's director of communications, I think it will have implications for the prime minister. It certainly should have.
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Climate
Drifter
Re: The News of the World and hacked e-mails.
7th July 2011 at 8:53PM
JohnEllis Wrote:

1. Climate, I think you're being generous to those at the top. The editor of a paper is the one who's legally liable for what the paper does and prints. Whatever else the Murdoch empire is, it's a professional and a canny operation. I simply don't believe that Rebekah Brooks or Andy Coulson, when they were editing the NotW didn't know what their underlings were up to. If they didn't, they were incompetent, and I don't think they would have got, or kept, their jobs if they had been.


Ok, let me put it another way. In the example I mentioned earlier with BP, do you think it's prudent or even realistic for an MD to know how each of it's 80,000 employees operate, (or even sub-contractors as let's be honest it could be someone working freelance in the news industry, especially if they are breaking laws to get a story the rewards could be very lucrative if you are successful) what each of them will or won't do to bend the rules? Of course not, that's why things get delegated down a chain of command.as it's impossible for one person to know EVERYTHING that is going on below them when each are fighting for their rung on the corporate ladder.
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cllrkevinhogg
Hazel Grove Councillor

cllrkevinhogg
Re: The News of the World and hacked e-mails.
8th July 2011 at 8:38AM
Hey climate are you on nights as at 2am I am tucked up asleep.
I agree that an MD doesn`t always know everything as he has managers to run day to day things for him/her but the MD should take responsibility for the company methods and indeed should set with the other directors, the ethics and working practices of the company concerned.
They are also ultimately responsible any one remember the BP oil fire in the Gulf of Mexico. I`ll bet he didn`t know of the shoddy practices and working practices but he did pay with his job.
As should Rebekah Brookes and ultimately James Murdoch
The N.O.W. will certainly be back with a new title and lower paid staff as Murdoch has taken the opportunity to get rid of a failing rag (its circulation was down a couple of million)and replace it with a cheaper version with staff on new terms and conditions.

Has Competition with this forum has brought about its demise LOL.
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elfa
Villager

elfa
Re: The News of the World and hacked e-mails.
8th July 2011 at 9:11AM
Murdoch has sacrificed the News of the World, to improve his chances with BSKYB. I hope everyone boycotts his papers, and cancels their Sky TV subscription. Run him out of this country.
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NorburyNewlywed
Villager

NorburyNewlywed
Re: The News of the World and hacked e-mails.
8th July 2011 at 9:56AM
elfa Wrote:

Murdoch has sacrificed the News of the World, to improve his chances with BSKYB. I hope everyone boycotts his papers, and cancels their Sky TV subscription. Run him out of this country.

I have sympathy for the 'boycott Sky' idea, but he doesn't own it all yet. It would make more sense to threaten a boycott in the event of a takeover - otherwise you're going to depress the shareprice and make it easier for him to buy!
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JohnEllis
Citizen

JohnEllis
Re: The News of the World and hacked e-mails.
8th July 2011 at 9:58AM, Edit: 8th July 2011 at 10:01AM by JohnEllis
Guest Wrote:

Ok, let me put it another way. In the example I mentioned earlier with BP, do you think it's prudent or even realistic for an MD to know how each of it's 80,000 employees operate ...
I'd agree if the operation were as big as BP's, and if we weren't talking about the newspaper industry.
But the NotW apparently employs only 200 people in all, and that will include the vanmen and the caretakers; and it's a newspaper, not an international petroleum conglomerate. It keeps a squad of lawyers because of the risk of libel; it has an editorial policy - in the NotW's case one which could be summed up as "dish the dirt" - it's in a viciously competitive and declining industry, and for each of those reasons those at the top need to know what's going on and how the business is being conducted. And the number of staff it has is small enough for their activities to be scrutinized and managed.

Above all, not a single commentator with inside knowledge of the way the newspaper industry works that I've seen on the box or read in the press appears to believe that Rebekah Brooks, as editor, wouldn't have known, and thus presumably sanctioned or at least tolerated, the methods that her hacks were using.

elfa Wrote:

... I hope everyone boycotts his papers, and cancels their Sky TV subscription. Run him out of this country.
If enough people would do it, that would be the best response. It's about money and profits, quite evidently to be obtained by any means possible, human or inhuman, legal or illegal - and to such a degree that politicians have been paralyzed by fear of them and police officers corrupted by bribes from them.

If politicians haven't got the balls to skewer this loathsome conglomerate and the soulless scum that run it, perhaps ordinary people might have enough moral fibre to do it for them.
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Climate
Drifter
Re: The News of the World and hacked e-mails.
8th July 2011 at 5:08PM
cllrkevinhogg Wrote:

Hey climate are you on nights as at 2am I am tucked up asleep.
I agree that an MD doesn`t always know everything as he has managers to run day to day things for him/her but the MD should take responsibility for the company methods and indeed should set with the other directors, the ethics and working practices of the company concerned.
They are also ultimately responsible any one remember the BP oil fire in the Gulf of Mexico. I`ll bet he didn`t know of the shoddy practices and working practices but he did pay with his job.


No, I am on my summer break at present. I have been for almost 2 weeks and have just over another 6 weeks to go until I am back in work! Saying that, I am normally up at 2am anyway.

With regards to you saying about setting working ethics, what makes you think that they weren't done? This whole situation is knee-jerk, with little valid facts and no convictions. Innocent until proven guilty and all that?

If they were well defined, do you think that someone in a well paid job would be daft enough to break the law under their superiors nose or even inform them? Would they heck. They would be discreet about it, do it in private, at home or whatever.

Councillor Hogg, the Macondo disaster with BP that I mentioned on the last page is the same one you are refering too. It's basically the field name but it is the Gulf of Mexico diasaster. It is still under investigation but already it has been proven that the concrete used and supplied by another company was not suitable.

The guy basically hung for the entire industry having no experience of something of that magnitude and nothing between their collective resources to sort it.   

NorburyNewlywed Wrote:

elfa Wrote:

Murdoch has sacrificed the News of the World, to improve his chances with BSKYB. I hope everyone boycotts his papers, and cancels their Sky TV subscription. Run him out of this country.

I have sympathy for the 'boycott Sky' idea, but he doesn't own it all yet. It would make more sense to threaten a boycott in the event of a takeover - otherwise you're going to depress the shareprice and make it easier for him to buy!


Boycott Sky? Listen to yourselves shooting bullets and asking questions later.

It wouldn't happen. This country is filled with too many self centered people, the type who bought newspapers in the first place that were filled with tittle-tattle.

They dealt with the demographic audience, people wanted trash gossip news so that is exactly what they gave their customers. The customers DEMAND for that sort of news inevitable resulted in the practices being taken' happening. It's a cycle. Those who bought News of the World for the crap it printed are as guilty as those that printed it.

Oh, on a side note BSKYB who again funnily enough I held shares in until a couple of months back, hold the Monopoly in this Country. They priced Virgin Media out of the Sky1 channels about 4/5 years ago as well as a few others and have all Sky Sports and Sky Sports News channels which people won't give up over something that will shortly be forgotten about. I wouldn't. They have set themselves up in the market in a VERY clever way IMO.

Also, the latter part is largely untrue as well. A takeover offer must be made when you hit a 30% shareholding. There is nothing I am aware of to stop him loading up on shares following a drop but it doesn't bypass the fact that the takeover has been passed for review by competition authorities so filling his boots with cheap shares would only leverage his risk at this time and you don't get into the position he is in within life by being stupid and taking risks which are not necessary.    

JohnEllis Wrote:

Guest Wrote:

Ok, let me put it another way. In the example I mentioned earlier with BP, do you think it's prudent or even realistic for an MD to know how each of it's 80,000 employees operate ...
I'd agree if the operation were as big as BP's, and if we weren't talking about the newspaper industry.
But the NotW apparently employs only 200 people in all, and that will include the vanmen and the caretakers; and it's a newspaper, not an international petroleum conglomerate. It keeps a squad of lawyers because of the risk of libel; it has an editorial policy - in the NotW's case one which could be summed up as "dish the dirt" - it's in a viciously competitive and declining industry, and for each of those reasons those at the top need to know what's going on and how the business is being conducted. And the number of staff it has is small enough for their activities to be scrutinized and managed.

Above all, not a single commentator with inside knowledge of the way the newspaper industry works that I've seen on the box or read in the press appears to believe that Rebekah Brooks, as editor, wouldn't have known, and thus presumably sanctioned or at least tolerated, the methods that her hacks were using.

elfa Wrote:

... I hope everyone boycotts his papers, and cancels their Sky TV subscription. Run him out of this country.
If enough people would do it, that would be the best response. It's about money and profits, quite evidently to be obtained by any means possible, human or inhuman, legal or illegal - and to such a degree that politicians have been paralyzed by fear of them and police officers corrupted by bribes from them.

If politicians haven't got the balls to skewer this loathsome conglomerate and the soulless scum that run it, perhaps ordinary people might have enough moral fibre to do it for them.


My understanding was that it was 200 people being made redundant but 500 employees? Even so, I bet if you went in there you couldn't remember all their names, let alone be able to validate someones working ethics. I know I couldn't and I am crap with names.

I can see where it is going...I would give my right arm to have a share in that new newspaper right now. What was it called, 'I' or something? Laughing all the way to the bank they are.

It would be a pretty stupid editor that came out to defend her though wouldn't it John when they are presented with a golden chance of taking a big slice of the market share. It would also mean the finger gets pointed at them, don't you think?

It's hard enough looking after 10 people and knowing what's going on, let alone 200/500.

I can tell you now what will happen. Brookes will 'resign' in the very short term. The scum that is the McCanns will have been 'hacked', they will milk it for all it is worth just as they do everything else. This enquiry will drag on for years and find no documentary evidence that Brookes knew anything about it. Other newspapers will become involved as practices spread throughout industry. Many of the stories will be found to be from freelance journalists. BSKYB subscriptions won't really drop much and in a year or 2 will be above what they are now.

Lets get some solid hard facts instead of knee jerk reaction, eh?
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