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Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan

This news article was submitted to Hazel Grove

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4th February 2013 at 2:45PM 32 Comments 
Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan
The planned redevelopment of Marple College Campus including a new ASDA on Hibbert Lane has been refused on the basis that 'it will harm the vitality and viability of Marple and Hazel Grove District Centres'.

Responses were received from 713 properties and a total of 867 individual letters. An 8270 person petition against the proposal was submitted along with a newspaper petition with 297 signatures.

A 284 person petition in support of the application was also received after being collected at Asda Hazel Grove and Asda Stockport.

The report states that taken toegether with the Aldi commitment in Offerton, 'implementation of both the Hibbert Lane and Chadwick Street supermarket proposals (however unlikely) would have a 'significant adverse' impact on Hazel Grove District Centre.'

"It is concluded that the harm to Marple and Hazel Grove District Centres outweighs any potential benefits/cross funding arguments the college has set out. It is also clear that the disposal of the land for alternative development types would secure a significant residual land value (approximately £4.5m), which would be more compliant with the councils policy.

"The proposed benefits to the college do not outweigh the harm to the vitality and viability of Marple and Hazel Grove District Centres. It has been concluded that there is a sequentially preferable site and as such paragraph 27 of the NPPF says that where an application fails to satisfy the sequential test or is likely to have a significant adverse impact on one or more of the above factors then planning permission should be refused."

Full report Here
 

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glenandem
Citizen

glenandem
Re: Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan
5th February 2013 at 10:15PM
Thank you for clearing that up cllr, very interesting and you can see how these companies get away with it, it's really not fair what's happened in h grove with sainsburys and asda and there really should be Somone looking at sorting it out really, not sure how but if this mess was allowed to happen by Somone thrm it should be looked at to make better flowing traffic?
Wasn't there a set of lights going to be switched off to see how traffic went a while back?
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Tyrawhitt
Townsperson

Tyrawhitt
Re: Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan
6th February 2013 at 12:15AM, Edit: 6th February 2013 at 12:23AM by Tyrawhitt
It was the one at Top Ten Tyres you suggested iirc but I think Cllr. Hogg was aiming at the ones near the news agents/cobblers near Hope Street. I use it in preference to the ASDA junction crossing as crossing can be risky business with it being 5 lanes . Feel vulnerable on the ASDA crossing as once you leave the kerb with the grean man on, there's no further indication on the long traverse across as to whether its still pedestrian green or has gone to red.   Poor design in the crossing for the pedestrian. And the A6 traffic idiots are unforgiving if you have not made it across the five lanes in time. It needs re-assessing from the pedestrian point of view for an eye on indication on either side.

As regards driving the A6, the Top Ten Tyres crossing will have little impact as traffic is stationary a lot of the time cos of the Sainsbury's lights. I never get bothered by the lights at Top Ten Tyres while driving, no more than any other signalled crossing points on any road. Non-issue to blame them.

The bigger issue besides north bound Sainsbury's lights is the ASDA bus stop at the Stockport bound side, the phasing of Commercial Road exit trafic lights and the ASDA lights timing. This leads to the Stockport direction A6 traffic filling up the available space before the Commercial Road lights change to let Commercial Road traffic turning out right. As a result they turn right into a fully choked road. Little as two cars exiting per traffic light cycle.
They need re-programming to avoid this stupid situation which occurs at certain busy times of the day. (Phasing varies I note at different times of the day.)

This is leading to Commercial Road traffic short cutting through the NO ENTRY at the end of Chapel Street on a high frequency basis. (3 points & £1k will do it nicely like the one caught in my video this morning).
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan
6th February 2013 at 6:53AM, Edit: 6th February 2013 at 7:25AM by Serenity
HG-21 Wrote:

Sainsbury's was needed. ASDA was already a supermarket. The new lights although a pain are much better than going down mount pleasant? for shoppers and the residents.


A store Sainsbury's size was not needed. What were the planners thinking of. Yes they had the space to build such a store but surely they must have been aware that the A6 could not take the extra pressure and still funtion safely. They already had a congested main road but were given the permission to add to it further. Makes no sense to the word planning what so ever. And as for ASDA well how much more congestion has that store brought to the Grove compared to the old Co-op. But still (like Sainsbury's)it was allowed to go through.

"Learn from the mistakes of the past" Andrew Stunnel now wants to quote. And goes on to say we don't want the same thing that happening to the Grove happening again in Marple.

Well if Andrew is now aware of such a huge mistake why is he not looking into ways of resolving this mistake instead of just merely citing the Grove as an example of poor planning that should not be allowed to happen again. How does he think words like that make the residents of the Grove feel.

However one thing I know will continue is that Andrew and and others like him will continue to drive and shop in the Grove polluting and congesting our streets using our supermarkets that they DIDN'T want... in their back yard at least.

Marple residents shop locally... that's a laugh.....One law for one and one law for another comes to mind....



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cllrkevinhogg
Hazel Grove Councillor

cllrkevinhogg
Re: Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan
6th February 2013 at 3:00PM
Serenity it isn`t as simple as you make out ring me at home 456 4936 and I will attempt to explain it in detail.
The Council is bound by PPG`s (planning policy guidlines) which means it cannot block things that the Government wants to happen, ie plans good for business but not so good for the community.
There are so many rules to follow it gives little or no chance of refusal but presumes Granting an application.
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan
6th February 2013 at 4:36PM
Thanks for your response Kevin. However whilst I can appreciate that it is hard for the Council not to grant sound business proposals (such as Sainsbury’s) especially in today’s climate. This decision has gone on to result in the problems we all now face.

Also I’m not sure why after all this time Andrew Stunnell now wants to wave the banner clearly stating what a huge mistake this decision was, unless it is being waved purely to add weight to his ASDA no go argument. This would be fair enough (as mistakes should be learnt from and not repeated) if he'd done something since to improve matters.

The green buses are an excellent first step but so much more needs to be done in order to reduce the congestion and to bring the pollution in-line with EU regulations. And most of all to make Hazel Grove a safer and healthy place to shop and live in.
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Coleman
Good Citizen

Coleman
Re: Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan
6th February 2013 at 4:48PM
On the subject of traffic through hazel grove and how to improve things (a little off topic but since the conversation is going that way), i am astounded that the council doesn't do anything about it!

I can think of a few things right off the top of my head that would improve A6 traffic with minimal cost and effort, For instance extend the day time parking restrictions in great moor to between 7am to 7pm and then actually enforce it, since the build up of traffic which results from this back right in to hazel grove, that alone could help a lot. Also adjust the traffic light timings to take into account actual road conditions (lights at sainsburys simply don't work at busy times), lose a couple of sets of lights in the grove, we don't need that many lights and crossings especially they are so close together its laughable. Stop the delivery truck parking outside modern aids all the time, it causes chaos and there is a yard 20 mtrs away from the shop they could park in or even around the back! Etc.

Maybe Kevin can explain or find out if he doesn't know why the council don't do these things and others to try and improve traffic flow?

Surely there are only gains for business, the residents and the environment?
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Norma_Stitts
Supervised

Norma_Stitts
Re: Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan
6th February 2013 at 5:26PM
Serenity Wrote:

A store Sainsbury's size was not needed. What were the planners thinking of. Yes they had the space to build such a store but surely they must have been aware that the A6 could not take the extra pressure and still funtion safely. They already had a congested main road but were given the permission to add to it further. Makes no sense to the word planning what so ever.


I believe a store of that size was needed, it's popularity alone is proof of that.

It's worth noting that many people are brand loyal so without that store the nearest Sainsburys stores are in Stockport centre and Macclesfield so from a pollution viewpoint, I travel a far shorter distance than I otherwise would do. I wouldn't shop in Asda if they were giving the stuff away for free.

Another point of note is that Sainsburys store was it's flagship store at the time of it's opening and had a lot of innovative things at the time (type 'Sainsburys Hazel Grove' into YouTube), big business doesn't spend money without reason and solid research.

I travel on the A6 each day and I genuinely do not view those lights as a particular concern. You can only plan things so far, most people are happier to sit in a car in traffic than they are to share a bus with strangers which is still stuck in the same traffic.

The workforce is gradually changing, 9-5 is becoming the exception rather than the norm, as a result traffic changes accordingly so I see things improving with time, especially when the link road is built!
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan
7th February 2013 at 6:49AM
Norma_Stitts Wrote:

Serenity Wrote:

A store Sainsbury's size was not needed. What were the planners thinking of. Yes they had the space to build such a store but surely they must have been aware that the A6 could not take the extra pressure and still funtion safely. They already had a congested main road but were given the permission to add to it further. Makes no sense to the word planning what so ever.


I believe a store of that size was needed, it's popularity alone is proof of that.

It's worth noting that many people are brand loyal so without that store the nearest Sainsburys stores are in Stockport centre and Macclesfield so from a pollution viewpoint, I travel a far shorter distance than I otherwise would do. I wouldn't shop in Asda if they were giving the stuff away for free.

Another point of note is that Sainsburys store was it's flagship store at the time of it's opening and had a lot of innovative things at the time (type 'Sainsburys Hazel Grove' into YouTube), big business doesn't spend money without reason and solid research.

I travel on the A6 each day and I genuinely do not view those lights as a particular concern. You can only plan things so far, most people are happier to sit in a car in traffic than they are to share a bus with strangers which is still stuck in the same traffic.

The workforce is gradually changing, 9-5 is becoming the exception rather than the norm, as a result traffic changes accordingly so I see things improving with time, especially when the link road is built!


I still don't think a store of that size was needed. I think the area would have been better suited for smaller Tesco quick shop, such as the one in Cheadle. Sainsbury's might be popular but I don't think that the Grove copes with all the extra traffic this store creates. But that's just my opinion.

I agree Norma that people like brand shopping. Perhaps if they had proposed a Sainsbury's or a Tesco Marple might have been more in favour of welcoming the venture. I did start a thread not so long ago asking was Marple to posh for an ASDA, perhaps I've got my answer since it doesn't look like an ASDA store(at least) is going to go ahead.

However the problem here is just poor planning in the first place or the approval of poor planning ideas. I'm still feel sure that on the original plans for Sainsbury's that the entrance didn't come out onto the main road. I could be wrong through. But you've got to remember that at the time we didn't have all the traffic lights that ASDA has since brought with it.

I'm not sure how any planner could honesty have thought that a network of traffic lights would not cause slow moving traffic and greater levels of pollution. They didn't need a crystal ball to see into the future to tell them that. If the Marple planners are aware of the potential problems now why was not the Groves planners not aware of it back then? The lights and junctions that they have put in place to resolve one problem have just created a more potential life threatening problem, more pollution. If not from the road then from the busier and larger car parks. It's ok speculating on future trends Norma but the Grove needs action taking now, especially in view of these high figures.

I'm sure as Coleman has said there must be some small measures that can be put into place now to assist the area in reducing these figures. I also agree with Coleman that they need to look at changing the timing of the traffic lights as one possible quick fix solution and possibly getting rid of those traffic lights outside the cobblers. Or having a crossing without lights, as the traffic mostly at a standstill at that point anyway.

However on saying all of this I do feel that the solution is definitely not to wave the flag and say that the Grove is a lesson in poor planning to be learnt from (I for one found that quite patronising and deflating). Instead why can't the same councillor who was quick enough back then to think that all these planning proposals where a great idea for the Grove just hold up his hands and say yes a mistake was made let’s now look at possible ways of putting that mistake right.
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Coleman
Good Citizen

Coleman
Re: Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan
7th February 2013 at 9:52AM
Serenity Wrote:

Instead why can't the same councillor who was quick enough back then to think that all these planning proposals where a great idea for the Grove just hold up his hands and say yes a mistake was made let’s now look at possible ways of putting that mistake right.


I think we all know politicians don't work that way!

Feel free to prove me wrong though Kevin or William (if he even still looks in on here)!
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Refused - Marple College & ASDA plan
7th February 2013 at 10:50AM
Coleman Wrote:

Serenity Wrote:

Instead why can't the same councillor who was quick enough back then to think that all these planning proposals where a great idea for the Grove just hold up his hands and say yes a mistake was made let’s now look at possible ways of putting that mistake right.


I think we all know politicians don't work that way!

Feel free to prove me wrong though Kevin or William (if he even still looks in on here)!


No they only work that way Coleman when its in their back yard. Then they work that way....
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