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Sainsburys Petrol Station

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julianlb
Hazel Grove Councillor

julianlb
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
8th June 2015 at 9:24AM
Folks,

I recognise that this is a contentious issue, I would like to ask that we keep the posts civil in this group please.

All Councillors are limited as to the comments they can make here as they are all required to judge the application fairly at the Area Committee meeting tomorrow night.

Oliver and I are clearly aware of the concerns of some the residents, we are also well aware of the traffic problems on the A6. We do also have to consider the correctness of the application and those residents for whom the options of cheaper fuel and time saving are attractive.

I have kept an eye on this forum about this issue and will take all your comments into consideration in the decision I make on Tuesday night.

Regards

Julian
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PFS1
Villager

PFS1
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
8th June 2015 at 10:40AM, Edit: 8th June 2015 at 10:47AM by PFS1
Has anyone read the reports by the Highway Engineer and the Planning Officer which are to be presented to the Area Planning Committee tomorrow (Tuesday) evening?
The Highway Engineer says that 400 new homes in the area will not affect traffic or shopping/parking at Sainsbury's.
The Planning Officer says that the carpark is too large by current planning limitations and should be 72 spaces smaller than it is now. But neither of these situations are objectionable.
If planning limitations were applied, car park Peak occupation percentages would be Weekday 91%, Weekend 84%. Not a lot of room for expansion.
Both these gentlemen support the application and recommend that it be granted.
With 60 objectors and one supporter, who speaks for the people because they are against it?
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Coleman
Forum Moderator

Coleman
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
8th June 2015 at 11:24AM
I don't think you can say 'the people are against it', i suspect that you could find plenty that are for it.

The difference is that people only tend to make effort to complain and rarely to support these things so it really doesn't mean much that they have had far more replies against. Plus you have to bear in mind that the responses are just those from the consultation (i.e. people who where sent a letter), which in reality only represents a very small proportion of local residents, and only those closes to it at that.

I've decided i don't feel strongly enough to continue discussing (arguing) the issue so i'm not going to add any more to my argument for it, i do find it telling though that whenever there is any mention of developments/improvements or building works of any kind, its always the same people complaining and arguing against it.

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julianlb
Hazel Grove Councillor

julianlb
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
8th June 2015 at 11:33AM
As a Councillor it is my job to balance those voices that are for and those against within my ward. there are just over 14,000 who live in the ward and approx. 30,000 in the Stepping Hill Area, I am aware that there are opinions both for and against.

Please remember that I am required to take into account the views of those who want a petrol station, for those that need the jobs that it will create and also those that are struggling with the traffic that the A6 already carries.

I have read the reports and questioned the officers, I have visited the site several times, some because I use the Sainsbury's store other times because I wanted to see at night what happens when you turn a car at the end of Mill lane with your headlights on as you would leaving the proposed station.

Regards

Julian
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
8th June 2015 at 11:40AM, Edit: 8th June 2015 at 12:27PM by Serenity
Coleman Wrote:

I don't think you can say 'the people are against it', i suspect that you could find plenty that are for it.

The difference is that people only tend to make effort to complain and rarely to support these things so it really doesn't mean much that they have had far more replies against. Plus you have to bear in mind that the responses are just those from the consultation (i.e. people who where sent a letter), which in reality only represents a very small proportion of local residents, and only those closes to it at that.

I've decided i don't feel strongly enough to continue discussing (arguing) the issue so i'm not going to add any more to my argument for it, i do find it telling though that whenever there is any mention of developments/improvements or building works of any kind, its always the same people complaining and arguing against it.



I take your point Coleman. You want it for cheaper more convenient petrol. Anywhere locally will do. But correct me if I'm wrong but the purpose of a consultation period is exactly that to ask the people closest what they think about any new development. And of course it's going to be these residents that will hold the most objections to it. But with that said to then label these people as complainers isn't quite fair Coleman.

And I also don't agree with you that all developments which have been passed in the Grove have been all been improvements to the Grove. Just because the majority of people wanted them in the first place doesn't automatically make them an improvement.

I know that you'll be perfectly right Coleman and that this new development will get approved similar to the plans for the new road and new houses that are being built. But no one still has actually addressed the concerns of those who don't want the extra traffic coming into the area.

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Coleman
Forum Moderator

Coleman
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
8th June 2015 at 4:32PM
Serenity, you are misunderstanding me a little here.

Firstly, i understand that those closest to it will likely be against it, but the responses in objection make up less than half of those consulted. Based on the fact people rarely bother to say anything when in favor, it could be argued that the remainder might be in favor of it!

I am not labeling anyone as 'complainers', maybe i should say those who object.

I also never once said every development was an improvement, simply that it is the same people who always object to any changes, good or bad!

I would point out though, often whether or not something is an improvement is a matter of opinion and an argument can be made that if most people think it is then it is! Kind of Majority rules!
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
8th June 2015 at 5:33PM, Edit: 8th June 2015 at 5:33PM by Serenity
Coleman Wrote:


I would point out though, often whether or not something is an improvement is a matter of opinion and an argument can be made that if most people think it is then it is! Kind of Majority rules!


The majority of people way back when wanted to build on the Lake District and before anyone shouts up that the Grove isn't the Lake District I know - I'm just trying to make the point that thank god someone (in the minority) spoke up otherwise what would we be left with now.

And just because the majority rule doesn't always make it the right thing to do Coleman.



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Coleman
Forum Moderator

Coleman
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
8th June 2015 at 7:22PM
Serenity Wrote:

And just because the majority rule doesn't always make it the right thing to do Coleman.


Maybe not, but decisions have to be made and without the benefit of hind sight or some divine power to guide us, the majority rule is the most reliable way in case without a clear right or wrong answer.
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
9th June 2015 at 6:51AM, Edit: 9th June 2015 at 6:52AM by Serenity
Coleman Wrote:

Serenity Wrote:

And just because the majority rule doesn't always make it the right thing to do Coleman.


Maybe not, but decisions have to be made and without the benefit of hind sight or some divine power to guide us, the majority rule is the most reliable way in case without a clear right or wrong answer.


I don't think you need to have any divine powers Coleman to guide us on this one Coleman. The writings on the wall. More traffic will definitely be hitting the Grove very shortly with a new road and two major housing developments nearing completion. All of which will be spilling out onto roads that can't cope with the traffic (in peak times) as it is now.

So add to that dangerous mix a petrol station with has the potential of bringing even more traffic and I don't think we need any divine powers to tell us what will happen next.

What we really need and should be getting is some common sense planning. We have space at the back of Sainsbury's so why aren't they building on that and incorporating a new road to take some of the traffic away from the Grove. We were promised a new road when they first built Sainsbury's but one never came off instead all we got was a complete eyesore of what is meant to be a tree. Not a great swop.

And as for the benefit of hind-sight Coleman, well you could say that we have plenty of that to go off. You only have to look at the bad planning mistakes (countless traffic lights, badly designed junctions) that have added to stagnant flow of traffic though the Grove. So you can't blame us for worrying about yet another development.

And as for that divine power perhaps it's not divine power we should be looking for but hoping for divine intervention to put things right. Perhaps that might be the bypass...Who knows but unfortunately until then all what your saying might be perfectly right Coleman about the majority vote ruling but its not the majority who have to live with these decisions it's the minority. And that's not such a great outlook for us.

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TwistedBanana
Townsperson

TwistedBanana
Re: Sainsburys Petrol Station
9th June 2015 at 7:13AM
I have kept out of this since my earlier post where i suggested that it really doesn't matter what your feelings are, whether there has been a consultation or not, whether any such consultation showed a huge majority against the proposal. The simple fact is that if Sainsburys really want to put a petrol station there, they will. Their business case will have shown the viability of their proposal and if initially it gets turned down they know exactly how much needs to be offered to the council to gain approval, this amount will be just part of their budget. It will be another "environmental donation".

i will wager now that this will be approved and thrown up pretty damn quickly.

They could be quite innovative and put extra long hoses on the pumps, rather than turn into to Sainsburys to get the fuel, an attendant could fill the tanks of the traffic that is gridlocked on the A6
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