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Poor old William Wragg

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TwistedBanana
Townsperson

TwistedBanana
Re: Poor old William Wragg
12th February 2016 at 6:48AM
Struck off after shafting one person over a two year period yet his brother has a job after shafting millions of people over a six year period

Chancellor's Brother Struck Off Over Affair
http://news.sky.com/story/1640250
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Poor old William Wragg
12th February 2016 at 9:15AM
God knows why anyone would be Chancellor. You don't half get some stick for it.

I cannot think of a genuinely popular Chancellor throughout history.
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Artie_Fufkin
Villager

Artie_Fufkin
Re: Poor old William Wragg
12th February 2016 at 11:26AM
OliverJohnstone Wrote:

I cannot think of a genuinely popular Chancellor throughout history.


Kenny Clarke? Although it's only after the event that both sides of the political devide appreciated how good he was.
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Mozza
Townsperson

Mozza
Re: Poor old William Wragg
12th February 2016 at 12:27PM, Edit: 12th February 2016 at 12:29PM by Mozza
Artie_Fufkin Wrote:

Mozza Wrote:

I think the pugnaciousness shows in your personal jibes. That aggression is, as you're proving in your increasingly thoughtless and brash comments, quite the trait of the right.

You're using the 1 trick Cameron did at this last election, and boy are you holding onto it, brandishing the "there's no money left" piece of paper. The thing is, most of the analysts now say that that was a worldwide trend, and little to do with spending policy.
But you've got to be really careful here.. the economy could be about to crash, with the banks doing the same old trick..and after 5/6 years of a Conservative government, we're going to know who can't be trusted with the economy right? Or will that be spun out of all recognition too?


Something about throwing stones? Whatever, we'll leave my pugnaciousness in your imagination.

I'm not so sure I used a trick, I thought I did a decent job of explaining how responsible people address a long-term financial commitment.

As for the economy, my view is that all governments of all colours (even the Lib dems) would have been caught out by the credit crunch but only Labour would have left themselves so insipid in their ability to react as they did. The massive problem was that TSPm had not really understood Keynesian economics in that he is supposed to have built up reserves in those good times so instead of turning the economic taps on in 2008, TSpm found that taps were already on full and they had been left on by some OEST for the last decade.

Oh,BTW, I'm not a Tory, just can't stand whiny left wingers.


You're a Tory. You support what they do, and speak for their actions. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a right wing Tory duck.

The whiny left wingers thing is the Tory adult version of the playground wandering away shouting "I'm not listening, I'm not listening"
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Poor old William Wragg
12th February 2016 at 1:07PM
Hadn't thought of Ken Clarke but yes - hindsight is a wonderful thing. Geoffrey Howe was very good but not very charismatic.

This feed has gotten somewhat bizarre - we are on ducks now. Right wing duck - Darkwing Duck's Daily Mail reading cousin from the home counties.
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stukaville
Villager

stukaville
Re: Poor old William Wragg
12th February 2016 at 1:34PM, Edit: 12th February 2016 at 1:35PM by stukaville
He simply needs to find himself a nice national trust pad.

Charity pays £375,000 to fix George Osborne's free mansion
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TwistedBanana
Townsperson

TwistedBanana
Re: Poor old William Wragg
12th February 2016 at 1:35PM
I feel a bit guilty leaving Mozza to fight the left wing corner alone but unfortunately I am pretty tied up at work at the moment, with limited access to my personal accounts etc.

However, he seems to be putting up a pretty good effort.

Just waiting for the current chancellor who is without doubt a brilliant politician, the way he has managed to cover his total ineptitude by manipulation of the right wing press, try to explain the current mire, the increasing debt, the fact the wages have stagnated for the longest outside of war period since Victoria was on the thrown, how growth is now diminishing and we are around two months away from another recession, a word that is synonymous with Tory governments who have presided over 78% of the last centuries recession years. We are living in world that is constantly proving neo-liberal policies do not work, yet manipulation by the few sat on propaganda perches in our press and media convince people (one on this thread in particular) that all is well with the world.

Lets not forget he is walking a political tightrope as his policies of making it an offence to nit hit certain fiscal targets (a policy that was designed to shut Labour up once and for all) is now coming home to roost as all his promises lay in the gutter. He has a get out, all his targets were based on certain market conditions and if anything unusual happened, like a collapse in oil prices or a collapse in the Chinese market, then he couldn't be to blame.

Oh how I bet Labour wished they had such get out excuses when the American sub-prime and banking crash hit the worlds markets. I bet Labour wish they could use the excuse of having to throw billions at RBS to stave off a disaster (much of which has been returned into Tory coffers as RBS ownership shifts back)instead of having that thrown in their face.

Lets not forget that Mr Osbourne supported much of the Labour fiscal policy up until 2008, then he hid in the shadows and went very quiet

This countries education system is going tits up, why would anyone be a teacher (not just blaming the tories for this, also blame the "New" Labour years), NHS now has the reapers scythe hanging over its neck, I could go one but time has caught up with me
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Poor old William Wragg
12th February 2016 at 2:04PM
Oh come on Twisted - look at the factors at play here. The UK economy has been declared as the least exposed to another recession out of the developed economies. The vast majority of economic commentators believe that it is external issues in other economies that are the biggest risk to the UK economy - not least the Eurozone economies like France that has had a Socialist President for a good few years now.

Surely we cannot listen to expert opinion and in some cases, unarguable facts and judge that Osbourne's economic policies have failed in any way. I am not saying it is perfect but then find me an economic policy that is.

The issues in the NHS were inevitable - we kept feeding ourselves the delusion over the last 70 years that we could continue to pay for universal healthcare as it became more complex and the population became much much older. I am not suggesting we do away with the universal free healthcare aspect but bottom line, unless we have a serious grown up debate about raising serious revenue from somewhere then the whole project will be in dire straits.

I don't think the Conservative Government is in a position to have that debate at the moment - it has been a mammoth task to secure the investment required just to fund the plan until the next decade. Equally I think that the rest of our political class are similarly unprepared. There is a fanatical, semi religious commitment to the NHS which can be positive but often also blinds people to the reality of "where does the extra revenue continue to come from?"

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Artie_Fufkin
Villager

Artie_Fufkin
Re: Poor old William Wragg
12th February 2016 at 3:28PM
Mozza Wrote:

You're a Tory. You support what they do, and speak for their actions. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a right wing Tory duck.

The whiny left wingers thing is the Tory adult version of the playground wandering away shouting "I'm not listening, I'm not listening"


I love being told what I am and what to think, put thing sin little boxes and it makes life so much easier.

I've been a member of all the main parties but only when at university and to be honest, I only did so to pull girls and get freebies. Since, I've never been a member and to be honest, I think anyone who is a member is somewhat strange.

If you really want to categorise me, I suppose of closest to being an Orange book liberal. The state should be there to help those who can't and where possible, only help them with a hand up, not live their lives. At the same time, i think individuals (within reason) should be able to do what they want as long as they take full responsibility for their actions.

Now, back to the thread. I really can't see why Wragg is being slagged off for what is a very sensible decision.

I really think your political allegiance is getting in the way of rational thought
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TwistedBanana
Townsperson

TwistedBanana
Re: Poor old William Wragg
12th February 2016 at 4:42PM, Edit: 12th February 2016 at 4:45PM by TwistedBanana
OliverJohnstone Wrote:

Oh come on Twisted - look at the factors at play here. The UK economy has been declared as the least exposed to another recession out of the developed economies. The vast majority of economic commentators believe that it is external issues in other economies that are the biggest risk to the UK economy - not least the Eurozone economies like France that has had a Socialist President for a good few years now.

Surely we cannot listen to expert opinion and in some cases, unarguable facts and judge that Osbourne's economic policies have failed in any way. I am not saying it is perfect but then find me an economic policy that is.

The issues in the NHS were inevitable - we kept feeding ourselves the delusion over the last 70 years that we could continue to pay for universal healthcare as it became more complex and the population became much much older. I am not suggesting we do away with the universal free healthcare aspect but bottom line, unless we have a serious grown up debate about raising serious revenue from somewhere then the whole project will be in dire straits.

I don't think the Conservative Government is in a position to have that debate at the moment - it has been a mammoth task to secure the investment required just to fund the plan until the next decade. Equally I think that the rest of our political class are similarly unprepared. There is a fanatical, semi religious commitment to the NHS which can be positive but often also blinds people to the reality of "where does the extra revenue continue to come from?"



Olly, You accept the argument that the biggest threat to the UK economy is from outside sources (Despite the fact we are stagnant as a country due to the ridiculous austerity measures)would you then accept that the issues with the economy in the latter years of the Labour government were also caused by external factors? after all it wasn't Gordon Brown who took Greece down, who put America into recession, who screwed up the Spanish economy - surely it is the Tories who want it both ways as you accuse me of?

Lets not forget that the Labour government spent Billions to bail RBS out, it had no choice, RBS has gradually paid back the money to start to take it out of public hands (thus providing a cash boost to the current purse string holders)

let me remind you that Osborne backed every piece of Labour's spending, up until 2008 when he suddenly slunk back into the shadows

GDP per head is still lower than it was before the Lehman crash
His promises to get rid of the deficit in one parliament have proven to be just tosh
You mention France - the nation whos productivity is 30% higher than ours


As for the health service - you use words like "fanatical" and "semi-religious" - these are the words of the Right, the sort of words used for 60 years by the Right to dismiss the supporters of something they have always despised.

Of course the health service can work, it is ridiculous to claim otherwise. Lets have a look at the biggest drains on the Health service, things like contracts awarded to companies that aren't offering the best packages but whos faces fit based on connections higher up. Lets look at how much it costs to train a nurse - roughly £80,000 per year for three years, only to see that newly qualified nurse go over to other private sector that still has minimal investment in training, thus loses the NHS a resource that has cost them just short of £250,000.00. Lets look at the many other areas that the Private Health Service is a parasite on the National Health Service. I have no objection with a Private Service that offers a bit above the norm but it shouldn't be parasitical to the NHS.

Lets look at the ridiculous amount of middle management still festering in well paid jobs, jobs that don't really exist while senior consultants and doctors wishes and advice is ignored for fear of it being too sensible and maybe making the Health service more efficient and then scuppering the plan to get rid of it.

Lets look at the billions spent each-time a new party or a new health minister comes in and restructures. moves this department to there and that department to here - I suppose if it keeps them busy pushing pens then alls good.
It wasted money that has cost the Health Service, not the fact it has outgrown its pants.

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