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Eu referendum.

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stukaville
Villager

stukaville
Eu referendum.
12th April 2016 at 10:12PM
The Conservative Government has spent £9 million of taxpayers on a pro EU campaign. In the interests of balance £9 million pounds of tax payer money should be released to the No Campaign. Anything less is a perversion of democracy.
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Eu referendum.
13th April 2016 at 5:25PM
For once, I agree with you.
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Sevenmilesout
Townsperson

Sevenmilesout
Re: Eu referendum.
20th April 2016 at 7:52AM
I will never vote for the Con Party or any other right wing party, but in this particular case, the government were absolutely right to publish the leaflet, having seen the leaflets published by the Leave n Lose camp, which contain downright lies and misinformation, in common with their propaganda.

I would expect the same from any democratically elected government whose policy was in support of a particular policy.

It is not that government who wishes to destroy the economy of the UK or risk jobs & security. They are protecting the future of the UK and the futures of our kids & their kids.

Why should the Leave n Lose camp be provided with public funds? They are not a democratically elected Party.
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Eu referendum.
25th April 2016 at 6:33AM, Edit: 25th April 2016 at 7:03AM by Serenity
We all by now know that David Cameron wants to stay within the EU, but this referendum is not meant to be about us voting politically.

We all know that in each party the views are split. Take our own local Conservative MP whose view is that it is now time to leave the EU.

But that’s only Williams view as an individual and even though his party leader holds a completely different view to him, William as an individual is still able to freely express his viewpoint because this is not about himy voting Politically.

So why then has David Cameron took a one off informational leaflet that was funded by the taxpayer, that should have been all about giving unbiased different viewpoints outlining reasons to stay or leave the EU and turned it into a soapbox for what is merely David Camerons viewpoint on the EU.

Instead of clear unbaised information what we unfortunately got was David Camerons one sided argument as to why to stay in the EU, compounded by again by an unbiased viewpoint of President Obama. Who merely stated stay in or else...you'll be at the back of the que. Very supportive and unbiased. ..not.

Whilst David Cameron has a right to his viewpoint as an individual, he however as a leader of the country should have taken this leaflet as an opportunity to give the public ALL of the facts and not just the facts as he wants the public to know them. That way the public could taken the information and then decided democractically on whether to stay or leave the EU.

This type of blinkered one sided viewpoint in my eyes is not leading democratically and does nothing to help the country decide.

I myself are leaning towards sharing Williams viewpoint on the EU and as such feel that the time is now right to leave, especially after seeing how this blinkered stay in europe or else one sided lobbying campaign is being run..

What’s your views Oliver. Do you agree with William?

Quote from William “ To be clear, personally I shall be voting to Leave the EU in the Referendum in June.
The Prime Minister recently presented his draft renegotiation deal on the UK’s relationship with the EU. This effectively triggered the start of the EU In/Out referendum, which will likely be later this summer.

The deal was supposed to contain measures limiting the EU’s encroachment over UK law and allow us to impose limits on EU migrants claiming benefits. However I believe that the draft deal on offer falls far short of what many will have imagined when we spoke of “fundamental renegotiation of our relationship with Europe”.

This is fundamentally about “who governs Britain?”. A question about which people in the UK are significantly out-of-step with what bureaucrats in the EU, see as the direction of Europe. That is why I believe personally it is time to withdraw from the EU, and I shall be voting to Leave in the forthcoming referendum.

That is not to say that I am anti-European. I love and respect the diversity of cultures, people, languages, goods and produce, cuisines, and histories that make up Europe. Indeed this is what gives the continent strength. However, I do object the incessant efforts by the European Commission, to trample over these diversities in order to smooth the way for ‘ever closer’ political union. I feel it disrespects our differences, our diversity and our freedoms. It saddles us with huge swathes of law and regulations that suit our continental neighbours more than ourselves, but which the UK has to fall into line with the EU on these matters and many more.

I look forward to speaking to many of you over the coming months of the referendum campaign, and whilst I do not expect all to agree with my individual point of view, I hope that many will take this opportunity not just vote out of gut instinct or fear, but rather to examine the case closely, to express their view and their vote on what they believe is right for Britain.”

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sam39
Villager

sam39
Re: Eu referendum.
25th April 2016 at 8:52AM
On February 20th, the Cabinet met to discuss the Government's position on the forthcoming referendum. Gove, Duncan Smith and other Brexiteers were present. No doubt they expressed their view; nevertheless, the Cabinet's decision was that the Government was in favour of staying in the EU. Cabinet Ministers opposed to that decision were given permission to campaign against without having to resign their posts. As a public ststement of that view, the Government issued a leaflet to every household, as it was entitled to do.
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Eu referendum.
25th April 2016 at 9:33AM
Yes Serenity my personal view is that we should leave.

This has always been my view - long before the PM first pledged to this referendum.

I suspect William and I come at this from different angles and probably have different reasons.
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Eu referendum.
25th April 2016 at 11:35AM
Might I ask Oliver, what those views might be?
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stukaville
Villager

stukaville
Re: Eu referendum.
25th April 2016 at 11:46AM
Sevenmilesout Wrote:


I would expect the same from any democratically elected government whose policy was in support of a particular policy.

It is not that government who wishes to destroy the economy of the UK or risk jobs & security. They are protecting the future of the UK and the futures of our kids & their kids.



In the general election 36.9% voted Conservative so more people didn't vote Tory than did. According to 'The Week' figures currently 52% want to remain, 43% leave and 5% don't know. I's irrelevant what the governments policy is. The camps should be equally funded to ensure a true debate.
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Eu referendum.
25th April 2016 at 12:08PM
It's an extremely complex argument and not one I usally like to put online or social media. However, in a nut shell:

For me the argument is a political moreso than an economic one. True the leave campaign have not produced a comprehensive plan of what Britain outside the EU would look like but then again they are not a homogeneous group and to be honest there would be too much under negotiation from an economic perspective to say at this stage we would definitely deliver X or Y. The argument of uncertainty is a nonsense too - yes we cannot say what definitely will or will not happen but the same argument was used against colonial independence and Eastern European countries leaving the Soviet Union/Eastern Block.

The most compelling issue is - do we subscribe to the EU programme for the next 20 years? The EU as a concept is fluid, not static. It has evolved from a common market into a political and economic union. There is a clear agenda from Brussels and Berlin of ever-closer union. On the table is now an EU Army, EU intelligence services etc. We have a shared foreign policy, a shared leader in the President of the European Union. A flag, an anthem.

You cannot kick anyone out that makes these decisions in Brussels because the elections to the European Parliament are quite frankly farcical. You vote for the party you want, that then sit in larger party groups that decide their own destiny. It is a governance structure that is distant from the people that it represents.

People who want to remain are presumably happy with the above state of affairs. The argument that you can reform anything we do not like is ridiculous - look at what the PM came back with from his negotiations. I was sceptical of his chances of success but even I was surprised at what little Brussels had conceded.

It is in this context that you have to say - do you want to stay or leave? Maybe knowing for definite the economic arrangements for the next 2 years is worth subscribing to the economic and political future inside the EU for the next 20.

I do not.
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Eu referendum.
25th April 2016 at 12:34PM
OliverJohnstone Wrote:

It's an extremely complex argument and not one I usally like to put online or social media. However, in a nut shell:

For me the argument is a political moreso than an economic one. True the leave campaign have not produced a comprehensive plan of what Britain outside the EU would look like but then again they are not a homogeneous group and to be honest there would be too much under negotiation from an economic perspective to say at this stage we would definitely deliver X or Y. The argument of uncertainty is a nonsense too - yes we cannot say what definitely will or will not happen but the same argument was used against colonial independence and Eastern European countries leaving the Soviet Union/Eastern Block.

The most compelling issue is - do we subscribe to the EU programme for the next 20 years? The EU as a concept is fluid, not static. It has evolved from a common market into a political and economic union. There is a clear agenda from Brussels and Berlin of ever-closer union. On the table is now an EU Army, EU intelligence services etc. We have a shared foreign policy, a shared leader in the President of the European Union. A flag, an anthem.

You cannot kick anyone out that makes these decisions in Brussels because the elections to the European Parliament are quite frankly farcical. You vote for the party you want, that then sit in larger party groups that decide their own destiny. It is a governance structure that is distant from the people that it represents.

People who want to remain are presumably happy with the above state of affairs. The argument that you can reform anything we do not like is ridiculous - look at what the PM came back with from his negotiations. I was sceptical of his chances of success but even I was surprised at what little Brussels had conceded.

It is in this context that you have to say - do you want to stay or leave? Maybe knowing for definite the economic arrangements for the next 2 years is worth subscribing to the economic and political future inside the EU for the next 20.

I do not.


Well said Oliver I totally agree with you.

Now if a brief outline of some of the positive points of leaving the EU had been included in the lack of information leaflet (paid by the tax payers) I would have had more belief that the debate was going to fair, open and unbais debate. But unfortunately as it stands at the moment I fear it will not be.

Something as important as this referendum should have had equal footing from the start. And not what we now have a poor fiaso totally one sided .
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