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Disgusted with the Tories.

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Norma_Stitts
Supervised

Norma_Stitts
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
13th April 2016 at 11:40PM
There is a strong smell of poverty in this thread. Only the poor complain as they have nothing to keep hold of in the first place. Sod them.
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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
14th April 2016 at 10:49AM, Edit: 14th April 2016 at 11:02AM by Serenity
I'm not as clued up as everyone else on this subject but I personally do feel that David Cameron has not avoided paying tax, that is true, and as such has not done anything legally wrong. But by his Dad putting this money in the Blair account in the first place to avoid paying tax to this country, is in my eyes morally wrong, And then for David Cameron to have since benefited by receiving the profit made even though he paid taxes is still morally wrong.

As a prime minister you should try wherever possible to lead by examples and to give examples that you hope people will follow, Does he want people to follow his dads example. I don't think so. This scandal from beginning to end has not been a great example to give to the country.

It would probably have been better for David Cameron if just before he became prime minister and knowing the history behind the account he had given the money to charity.

Whilst what he did was not illegal it was definitely not morally right.

I'm sorry Oliver I know he's the leader of your party but unfortunately on this occasion I don't see David Cameron as being totally transparent on this one.



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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
14th April 2016 at 11:33AM
Serenity - this has nothing to do with him being the leader of the Conservative Party.

Blairmore was a Collective Investment Fund which are exempt from tax in the UK when they are registered here. It is because HMRC applies the tax on the beneficiaries, rather than the vehicle through which they are investing.

In short, Blairmore wouldn't have paid any more tax here than it would have done in Panama. The underlying investors, Ian and David Cameron for example, would have paid and did pay tax in their registered jurisdiction - the UK.

Funds are started all over the globe for various reasons - access to different markets, residing under different regulatory frameworks. Avoiding tax is only one of any number of reasons why companies register in markets like Panama, the Caymans etc.

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Mozza
Townsperson

Mozza
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
14th April 2016 at 12:03PM
OliverJohnstone Wrote:

Serenity - this has nothing to do with him being the leader of the Conservative Party.

Blairmore was a Collective Investment Fund which are exempt from tax in the UK when they are registered here. It is because HMRC applies the tax on the beneficiaries, rather than the vehicle through which they are investing.

In short, Blairmore wouldn't have paid any more tax here than it would have done in Panama. The underlying investors, Ian and David Cameron for example, would have paid and did pay tax in their registered jurisdiction - the UK.

Funds are started all over the globe for various reasons - access to different markets, residing under different regulatory frameworks. Avoiding tax is only one of any number of reasons why companies register in markets like Panama, the Caymans etc.



Oliver..I realise you have to toe the party line and do what you're told, but this is ridiculous.

I said myself if I had a few hundred thousand £s that I'd be tempted to give bits of it I don't miss, like the odd hundred thousand, to my kids..then they don't need to give the country inheritance tax on it. Jolly good for posh boy, well played.

But the fact is, this guy is chasing down companies and people (Jimmy carr) for also doing legal stuff.
It's unbefitting of the prime minister, but I wouldn't expect any different from him.
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Mozza
Townsperson

Mozza
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
14th April 2016 at 12:04PM
Lovely lot, these Tories..

Thirty-four specialist refuges have closed under the six years of Tory rule. The Women’s Aid Annual survey shows that on a single day at least 112 women and their 84 children were turned away from refuge because of a lack of resources. That’s 196 vulnerable people a day.
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
15th April 2016 at 10:09AM
Mozza I am giving you solid financial arguments as to why the PM didn't do anything wrong - it is a bit weak to come back with "I realise you have to toe the party line."

What the PM did in relation to Blairmore and his inheritance tax gifts was 100% moral and justified. Inheritance tax is a horrendous method of taxation in my eyes and the gifting principle helps liquid assets to be passed on to the family in a regulated manner.

As much as you may want to make this out as something dark and sinister, your point simply doesn't work.

Now onto Google and Jimmy Carr - Google, Starbucks, Amazon and the like are companies which do a lot of business in countries like the UK but register themselves to be domiciled for tax purposes in countries like Luxembourg and Liechtenstein. The problem with this is that whilst they have fixed assets and operations in the UK and other large European states, they pay exceptionally low rates of tax on their operations by domiciling in tax havens, where their actual business is comparatively tiny or non existent.

Jimmy Carr on the other hand (in a similar vein to Ken Livingston) was funnelling his earnings into a holding company registered to Guernsey (an off shore tax haven). The holding company then issued loans to Jimmy Carr which were in effective his salary - meaning he avoiding paying income tax in the UK, despite the fact that he conducted his business here.

The above two examples are cases of aggressive, active tax avoidance where there is a clear line between what UK tax law actively permits and what are grey areas and loop holes.
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Mozza
Townsperson

Mozza
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
15th April 2016 at 12:06PM
You're never going to see the point that what he did was just..ironic for someone who pretended to take a stand in it.. You're too covered in the blue paint. Hey ho.

The most insightful remark is from Norma Stitts above I think..that's basically what's going on in the conservative party.
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
15th April 2016 at 12:21PM
So we've gone from immoral to hypocritical to ironic - quite the climb down ;)

I actually agree that the Prime Minister was rather foolish to have gone all gung-ho on tax avoidance. At the end of the day, the government should be working to make it harder for people to avoid tax to increase revenue to the Treasury, the idea that it is some moral crusade is a nice rhetorical device but it doesn't really achieve much.

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Serenity
Citizen

Serenity
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
15th April 2016 at 2:22PM, Edit: 15th April 2016 at 2:25PM by Serenity
OliverJohnstone Wrote:

So we've gone from immoral to hypocritical to ironic - quite the climb down ;)

I actually agree that the Prime Minister was rather foolish to have gone all gung-ho on tax avoidance. At the end of the day, the government should be working to make it harder for people to avoid tax to increase revenue to the Treasury, the idea that it is some moral crusade is a nice rhetorical device but it doesn't really achieve much.



Exactly Oliver the goverment (namely DC himself)isn't setting a good example of how to do things the right way. Well the right way for the country that is...😊
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Mozza
Townsperson

Mozza
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
15th April 2016 at 2:39PM
OliverJohnstone Wrote:

So we've gone from immoral to hypocritical to ironic - quite the climb down ;)

I actually agree that the Prime Minister was rather foolish to have gone all gung-ho on tax avoidance. At the end of the day, the government should be working to make it harder for people to avoid tax to increase revenue to the Treasury, the idea that it is some moral crusade is a nice rhetorical device but it doesn't really achieve much.



I never said immoral, I said hypocritical and ironic. I also pointed out that if I had the odd few million quid I'd do the same myself.

You can only take so much of these posh boys mewing at you before you start to realise they basically want the power.
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