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Disgusted with the Tories.

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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
10th April 2016 at 6:46PM
I'm not entirely sure that's true Mozza.

What Google and the like do is not what Blairmore does. What Jimmy Carr did was similarly nothing like what Cameron was doing with his money.

I am led to believe that as a collective investment fund, Blairmore wouldn't have paid corporation tax even if it had been registered to the UK. The tax liability is transferred to the underlying investor of which the PM was one AND which he paid in full.

The inheritance tax gifts is perfectly legal and is in the spirit of the law as well as the letter. It is not a loophole.

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Mozza
Townsperson

Mozza
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
11th April 2016 at 8:17AM
OliverJohnstone Wrote:

I'm not entirely sure that's true Mozza.

What Google and the like do is not what Blairmore does. What Jimmy Carr did was similarly nothing like what Cameron was doing with his money.

I am led to believe that as a collective investment fund, Blairmore wouldn't have paid corporation tax even if it had been registered to the UK. The tax liability is transferred to the underlying investor of which the PM was one AND which he paid in full.

The inheritance tax gifts is perfectly legal and is in the spirit of the law as well as the letter. It is not a loophole.



Oliver, I'm not sure either of us know much about the technicalities of this, but come on...Panama? Two big gifts from mummy which will likely not pay inheritance tax?

I'm sure they've been clever enough for this not to be illegal, he can afford the very best in advisors, but ethically it loses him a lot of credibility.

I'm pointing out something that we're never going to agree on...if you manage to avoid paying inheritance tax of 40% or whatever it is, even if it's the £90,000 tax of what Cameron has admitted to have been "gifted" (put together all the people that have done that) that's less money for the country... And when you're chasing down people on a 70 quid benefit it all seems (without swearing) like the world is one crazy upside down place.
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vulcanman
Townsperson

vulcanman
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
11th April 2016 at 11:40AM
Gifting is very common indeed where a sum of money is passed down to the next generation to avoid paying inheritance tax. It is all about timing, in that if the person who makes the gift survive for 7 years after the gift then tax is not due. Similarly, people often transfer ownership of a house to the next generation so that the family house is not taken into account for any end of life care needs. All perfectly legal to the spirit and letter of the law with no expensive tax advisers being required; any solicitor can take care of this for anybody.

I suppose that these are both examples of tax avoidance, although it is usually called tax planning. Tax evasion is a different matter and needs stamping out once and for all.
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Mozza
Townsperson

Mozza
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
12th April 2016 at 9:34AM
vulcanman Wrote:

Gifting is very common indeed where a sum of money is passed down to the next generation to avoid paying inheritance tax. It is all about timing, in that if the person who makes the gift survive for 7 years after the gift then tax is not due. Similarly, people often transfer ownership of a house to the next generation so that the family house is not taken into account for any end of life care needs. All perfectly legal to the spirit and letter of the law with no expensive tax advisers being required; any solicitor can take care of this for anybody.

I suppose that these are both examples of tax avoidance, although it is usually called tax planning. Tax evasion is a different matter and needs stamping out once and for all.


And that is all fine, and I agree, and I might even have it done myself with the 50p I have in property.
But the point is, this guy waged war on Starbucks and Google and Jimmy Carr and whoever else...who were not evading tax, and worked to the letter of the law, as you say.

That is the problem here.

Anyway, what a load of old crap..how can showing your tax return show what you've not paid tax on. 😢
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stukaville
Villager

stukaville
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
13th April 2016 at 3:24PM
[QUOTE=Mozza]this guy waged war on Starbucks and Google and Jimmy Carr and whoever else/QUOTE]

He didn't go to war on google. Osborne was thrown a bone and he called it fillet steak.
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
13th April 2016 at 5:25PM, Edit: 13th April 2016 at 5:25PM by OliverJohnstone
What Jimmy Carr, Google and Starbucks were doing cannot be compared to holding shares in a foreign investment fund. They are fundamentally different and it is outrageous that they are being mentioned in the same debate.



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TwistedBanana
Townsperson

TwistedBanana
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
13th April 2016 at 5:33PM
A debate about Tax Avoidance, there are many ways to avoid tax, the Prime Minister and his Chancellor both referred to tax avoidance as immoral. Now the Prime Minister has been shown to be avoiding tax, is he immoral?
Why did he put out numerous statements avoiding the truth, was it because he knew he did wrong? When I say "wrong" I mean wrong morally as he would call it?

I am sorry Oliver but I really do think you are clutching a bit here, the Prime Minister used the words immoral when looking at other cases, while he was sucking on the same lollipop that just had a different flavour

The more money they have, the greedier they get - now that is immoral

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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
13th April 2016 at 5:40PM
I am not aware of how he has avoided tax.

As I have mentioned in earlier comments, he paid full UK tax on his receipts from Blairmore which as a fund would not have paid tax in the UK either. Funds can be based abroad for regulatory purposes as well as for tax purposes.

Gifting inheritance tax is not classed as tax avoidance because it is an actively encouraged and legally supported practice, not taking advantage of loop holes or aggressive accounting practices.
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Mozza
Townsperson

Mozza
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
13th April 2016 at 6:15PM
OliverJohnstone Wrote:

I am not aware of how he has avoided tax.

As I have mentioned in earlier comments, he paid full UK tax on his receipts from Blairmore which as a fund would not have paid tax in the UK either. Funds can be based abroad for regulatory purposes as well as for tax purposes.

Gifting inheritance tax is not classed as tax avoidance because it is an actively encouraged and legally supported practice, not taking advantage of loop holes or aggressive accounting practices.


Oliver, this is madness that you don't see it.

He's taken the moral high ground, and been found he's up to it too.

If I had millions of £s, I'd probably do the same thing..the point is he's trying to stop others from doing this stuff.

Tax avoidance - the arrangement of ones taxes to minimise tax payments.

Do you honestly think his mum gave him two payments, after the first one, which was just under threshold, as a nice pressie? You're really more blue tinted glasses than I thought.
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
13th April 2016 at 6:37PM
But Mozza you haven't told me how he has avoided tax.

The inheritance tax rules as set out by HRMC allow the gifting of an amount up to a threshold providing the issuer doesn't die within 7 years. I believe there is also a limit on how many gifts an be paid.

This isn't tax avoidance - pure and simple. You can do it, I can do it, whether it is £20 or £200,000, not through a loop hole or aggressive accounting but through a mechanism established by HMRC and governed by a set of rules.
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