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Disgusted with the Tories.

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TwistedBanana
Townsperson

TwistedBanana
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
3rd April 2016 at 10:28AM
We were also a nation of pirates and vagabonds - cant wait to go back there, aimlessly wandering the hills and valleys until I am caught by the Press Gang and shipped into piracy

If we as a nation are leaders in the Financial industry, then, in the words of a favourite character of mine, we are all doomed.

Think I may become a nomad now, get in there early
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
3rd April 2016 at 11:23AM
Yes yahboo the financial industry - I'd much rather go back to a time before credit cards, home improvement loans, mortgages, business start up loans, banks accounts, capital infrastructure investment.

I quite fancy keeping my money under my mattress with the constant threat of armed burglars robbing everything I have, not being able to open a business because I wasn't born with the significant amount of cash required to start up, using horse and carts instead of roads and railways etc etc.
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TwistedBanana
Townsperson

TwistedBanana
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
3rd April 2016 at 11:47AM
The worrying thing is Oliver, you have just described the future for many, not the past
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
3rd April 2016 at 2:15PM
The only countries where that is a likely future are those that have rejected austerity.

I think you will find than the standard of life in this country is vastly superior to that in many of the countries that would take the advice of yourself and Mozza.
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TwistedBanana
Townsperson

TwistedBanana
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
3rd April 2016 at 2:49PM
Sorry mate, I really think your blinkers are tightening up.

Come and have a walk round Manchester city centre with me one evening

Come and have a chat with the people I know on zero hour contracts

Come and hav e chat with the people who cant get mortgages

Come and have a chat with the people with no job security

Come and have a chat with the workers with no rights

Come and have a chat with the disabled people I know who have lost all the welfare help they had

I could go on but I am lucky enough to be watching the cricket and enjoying my Sunday

Oliver, I think we both know we will never agree, and by the way can I also say that as a councillor locally you seem very hands on and get involved with lots of Hazel Grove groups etc, I give you the utmost respect for that (god, the Robinsons must be kicking in, I am being nice)
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stukaville
Villager

stukaville
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
4th April 2016 at 4:54PM, Edit: 4th April 2016 at 4:55PM by stukaville
OliverJohnstone Wrote:

The Government announced in the Summer Budget last year the largest ever investment by UK government in cutting down on avoidance but notably critics conveniently ignore that.




Can you shed any light on this?

"David Cameron’s father ran an offshore fund that avoided ever having to pay tax in Britain by hiring a small army of Bahamas residents – including a part-time bishop – to sign its paperwork.

Ian Cameron was a director of Blairmore Holdings Inc, an investment fund run from the Bahamas but named after the family’s ancestral home in Aberdeenshire, which managed tens of millions of pounds on behalf of wealthy families.

Clients included Isidore Kerman, an adviser to Robert Maxwell who once owned the West End restaurants Scott’s and J Sheekey, and Leopold Joseph, a private bank used by the Rolling Stones.

The fund was founded in the early 1980s with help from the prime minister’s late father and still exists today. The Guardian has confirmed that in 30 years Blairmore has never paid a penny of tax in the UK on its profits.

The prime minister’s spokeswoman said that Downing Street had responded to allegations about Ian Cameron in the past.

Asked if there was still any family money invested in the fund, she said: “That is a private matter.” She said the prime minister had “taken a range of action to tackle evasion and aggressive tax avoidance”."


Source

http://www.theguardian.com/news/2016/apr/04/panama-papers-david-cameron-father-tax-bahamas?CMP=fb_gu
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
5th April 2016 at 7:36AM
Why would I as a borough cllr in Stockport know anything about the financial arrangements of the PM's late father?

But of course you have now read an article in the Guardian so that makes you an objective expert, I suppose.
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TwistedBanana
Townsperson

TwistedBanana
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
5th April 2016 at 8:44AM
Not sure you should be picking and choosing your arguments when it comes to national politics Oliver. You have been quite vocal in your support for your party and its leader throughout this thread (and fair play to you) but you cant play the "I'm just a local Councillor" card when it suits

Stukeville only asked if you could throw any light on it. Your reply was a tad terse to say the least

I know you will probably reply that the financial position of the Prime Minister's late father is not relevant but it is. It is, when the Prime Minister, your party leader had quite openly described tax avoidance as immoral (note, I said tax avoidance, as evasion would have been illegal not immoral)

Stuke, seemed to be asking for clarification of the report, a report that has been dispatched in far more areas of the media than The Guardian.

Now surely Oliver, if you want to defend you party on a national level as you do, then you cant pick and choose.

What do you think, is tax avoidance immoral?

If we find that the Prime Minister had millions of family money nestled away in a little tax haven somewhere, is he immoral?

How would this sort of "avoidance" seem to the local plumber who was a couple of hundred quid out on his tax return and is now being hounded by the taxman, who will be highlighted in a channel 5 poor people are scrotes documentary?

Although you don't have knowledge of the Prime Ministers dads financial situation, you surely must have a moral standpoint?
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
5th April 2016 at 9:17AM
My reply is indicative of the fact that I nor any of the tabloid press has produced substantive evidence to support any wrong doing on anyone's part. Until that point, I will not be arrogantly judging whether the Prime Minister has acted improperly.

I don't think tax avoidance is a clear cut, black and white moral issue. Tax avoidance can mean anything from basing a UK-oriented company in the Caymans to an employee-share ownership scheme or inheritance gifts between relatives.

I come at it from a more practical level i.e. Governments should try to maximise the collection rates within the existing tax structure. It is prudent to close loop-holes in order to raise more revenue for the Treasury but I don't buy into the moralistic principle at all.
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Mozza
Townsperson

Mozza
Re: Disgusted with the Tories.
6th April 2016 at 7:54AM
TwistedBanana Wrote:

Not sure you should be picking and choosing your arguments when it comes to national politics Oliver. You have been quite vocal in your support for your party and its leader throughout this thread (and fair play to you) but you cant play the "I'm just a local Councillor" card when it suits

Stukeville only asked if you could throw any light on it. Your reply was a tad terse to say the least

I know you will probably reply that the financial position of the Prime Minister's late father is not relevant but it is. It is, when the Prime Minister, your party leader had quite openly described tax avoidance as immoral (note, I said tax avoidance, as evasion would have been illegal not immoral)

Stuke, seemed to be asking for clarification of the report, a report that has been dispatched in far more areas of the media than The Guardian.

Now surely Oliver, if you want to defend you party on a national level as you do, then you cant pick and choose.

What do you think, is tax avoidance immoral?



Dead right.

This is a Tory thing too isn't it? If an argument isn't working out, quick, ignore it and move on to something you can try to take credit for.

Also great question "is tax avoidance immoral"
You might not like that line of questioning Oliver, but that's a little taste of how it feels when you lot say stuff like "so, do you agree we need to get rid of the deficit or not?".
I'm sure the Conservatives find questions around tax avoidance too simplistic yet they will level all sorts of over simplified questions about the economy... Until their obsessive cuts don't work and end up falling back on a world economy excuse...
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