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HGHS V Hazel Grove Academy

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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: HGHS V Hazel Grove Academy
1st August 2012 at 5:14PM
I see your point but I do not see how switching to academy status enhances the likelihood of those things happening.

There is nothing about local authority control that means teachers do not already want to teach in the best schools or for the best salary. Equally, the point about funding is neither here nor there - the way the scheme works means the school is provided for with funding for service provision.

In any case, the option is there to buy back the same certain services from the local authority if no other competitive option is available.
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TwistedBanana
Townsperson

TwistedBanana
Re: HGHS V Hazel Grove Academy
1st August 2012 at 5:25PM
Yes but my whole point centered around the "stealth" word.

Its all very well talking about the "now" and i understand that the concept of the acadamy receiving the LEA slice of the pie to opt out of their services and choose their own options for catering etc etc.

I beleive its the thin end of the wedge. I know people will pick me up on my point of "self funding" but how this can happen is blatantly obvious to me as the best performing schools start looking at methods of payment for accpetance.

I am not talking 6 months or even 2 or 3 years but i have grave concerns about the eventual outcome as little by little our state education is gnawed away.

I will pop back on here tomorrow to see how others have viewed it
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: HGHS V Hazel Grove Academy
1st August 2012 at 5:39PM
I find it difficult to be persuaded by the argument that we shouldn't do X because Y might happen at some point, somewhere in the future.

It is a major step away from the Academy system to start charging for acceptance. I don't see the move out of LA control being logically concluded by a system of fee-paying schools. Most of the best state schools already have economic discriminatory practices enforced by LAs - the catchment areas! Most of the top state schools are located within more affluent catchment areas.

You're point whilst I realise you feel very strongly about it, and I respect that and your entitlement to hold it, is predicated on assumptions - I believe without base. If we weigh up your slippery slope versus the arguments for academy status, the latter I think is the more compelling case.

That alas, is just my opinion...
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Robot69
Citizen

Robot69
Re: HGHS V Hazel Grove Academy
1st August 2012 at 5:47PM
I find the pontification of the results achieved by the school over the last few years are only achieved on it being an academy for the last few month ludicrous. If BigTed is a teacher there then with that rationale then God help the future education of the kids.

Give it five years then you can START to make a judgement. Give it ten years then you can make a true reflection.

This 10% bit is a bit of a point scoring exercise by using stats without the full understanding of how it got that score. Based on exam results it was no where near top 10% in Stockport and even lower when you take into account local schools in Cheshire. Someone is trying to polish a turd!
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: HGHS V Hazel Grove Academy
1st August 2012 at 6:01PM
You're right Robot about the stats issue but equally no massive improvement in some areas does not disprove the case for academies.

I fully agree that, as with any long term fundamental change in policy, the consequences good or bad cannot be judged as yet.

I do however, think that some of the hyperbole expressed prior to the switch has been rightly proven to have been ill-judged at best and nonsense at worst.
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Robot69
Citizen

Robot69
Re: HGHS V Hazel Grove Academy
1st August 2012 at 6:49PM
I'm neither for or against academies as its too early to say what impact it has on the school. My main concern would be the control of monies. It needs a strong person to control the budget and I really don't believe it is an academic that would have sufficient real world business knowledge - at the end of the day this school will have to run as a business with the products being the kids, crude I know but that is how it is.

As for exam results; well we can debate this 'till the cows come home. Even the Government are suggesting they are getting too easy (without actually saying that) or at least the education is about passing exams rather than applying the knowledge in the real world.

For the record, I have had two kids go through HGHS with varying degrees of success. Neither of which I am that proud of but I can't heap the whole blame on the school but they do have to accept some!
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: HGHS V Hazel Grove Academy
2nd August 2012 at 6:23PM, Edit: 3rd August 2012 at 11:00AM by OliverJohnstone
Agree RE: the evidence of success.

On the issue of whether or not academics are the appropriate people to 'run a business' as you put it. To that I say:

1) I wouldn't brand all teachers as 'academics' - lecturers maybe but primary & secondary teachers cannot be solely pigeonholed as 'academics'. They manage departments and budgets within the school, let alone communicating to much wider diverse audience, whilst acting in a pastoral role too.

2) I would contend that some politicians & bureaucrats are far far more ill suited to running businesses and organisations that most ordinary teachers are.

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Robot69
Citizen

Robot69
Re: HGHS V Hazel Grove Academy
3rd August 2012 at 9:44AM
If it was a choice between a teacher and a politician running a school then its an obvious decision - teacher!

Lets face it, I wouldn't have a politician within a million miles of running anything. There are exceptions to that statement as one or two politicians have an alter ego and are very good business men (or even women!) but they first have to drop the political agenda to be affective. Politics and business don't mix.

Running a dept. budget where the government (local or central) dictate what to do with it is completely different to having your own control and also being able to raise your own funds and I'm not talking summer fate type funds. Just look at some NHS bodies.
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TwistedBanana
Townsperson

TwistedBanana
Re: HGHS V Hazel Grove Academy
5th August 2012 at 2:21PM
In my anger at Big Teds post I missed a point that he made right at the end where he suggests that in the future HGHS could become a very difficult school to get your kids in. I summised initially that Big Ted was one of the Governors bulldozed the academy switch through. I must have been mistaken as I asked a question of the governors at one of the meetings and they insisted that all the feeder schools will remain as is and the school would never become elitist in its selection policies and all Hazel Grove children would have access to this school.

This leaves me wondering who BigTed is and what were the drivers for his post. Or is he a Governor who is now showing his true colours and admitting to bare faced lying in the meetings.

Big Ted, I still await your response to the reactions to your post. I hope you aren't hiding behind the bike sheds until the big bullies have gone away and stopped shouting at you. Come on out I promise not to hurt you ........
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OliverJohnstone
Hazel Grove Councillor

OliverJohnstone
Re: HGHS V Hazel Grove Academy
5th August 2012 at 8:52PM
I understand your concern and anxiety about that and indeed it is not something that I would wish to see happen.

HGHS cannot really become a 'selective' school per se unless it becomes over-subscribed - which in a way would be a good thing as it would mean the school is a good school to send your children to. Even if that were to happen, a state school could not select on any grounds other than first-come-first-served or catchment area. It's just not legal.

I also sympathise with the Governing Body of which I was formerly a member a long time before this issue came to the fore. They were up against an aggressive union counter campaign who were peddling some shocking untruths and misinformation in meetings and pamphlets.

I would have approached the matter a lot differently though.
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